John Dessauer Expert Investor & Anton Property Management Founder

Eric Wilson
November 12, 2020


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John Dessauer,Dave Seymour


Dave Seymour 00:01

Well,hello there. Hey, thanks. Thanks for joining us. My name is Dave Seymour. Ifyou've ended up in a position to, to watch and listen to this recording, then Ihope you know who I am. But if you don't, I've been real estate investing nowfor well over a decade. started my career very, very simply a little bit ofwholesale transaction single family homes, I work my way up to buy fix andflips have helped portfolios. I've been a lender, I've done huge deals, I'vedone small deals. And along the way, I've banded together with some prettypowerful individuals. I was very blessed to have a hit TV show on a&enetwork called flippin Boston, where they followed me and my ex partner aroundwith a camera pointing where the sun don't shine, which was an interestingexperience. But because of that, you know, I got I got to attract some reallypowerful investors and today, a class of his friends as well. So look, I'vebeen blessed to pin down the young man, I think you can see him on the screenyou should be able to his name is john Bess, our john is in the Chicago marketareas. Hey, john.


John Dessauer 01:08

Hey,good morning. Thanks for having me.


Dave Seymour 01:10

Goodmorning. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Never know if it's okay to biomed backin England, john. It's good evening, right. But John's in the Chicago market?I've known john probably what 10 years now, Johnny? Yeah, yes. 10 years. JOHNactually was very well entrenched with the, with the banking industry, whenthey're when they're kind of like the market crashed and you were carryingportfolios of single families as well as 612, even some bigger deals that youdid in Chicago when the market tanked. That's where we first met, and I my bestlittle deals ever. But let's do this. JOHN, you introduce yourself to the sortof folks that are listening to this to the potential investors and share alittle bit about yourself, man. Otherwise, I'll take up all the oxygen in theroom. You know me?


John Dessauer 02:01

Well,I'm also i'm also Dave's personal hairstylist.


Dave Seymour 02:05

Thankyou Oh,


John Dessauer 02:06

okay.That's not true. That's not true.


Dave Seymour 02:08

Now, youknow,


John Dessauer 02:09

I'vebeen heavily involved in in real estate investing for the majority of mycareer, adult career. And, you know, I bought multifamily units, it's been themain focus of my investing criteria. But I've you know, fix and flip and we'veworked with foreclosures and, and a lot of different asset types throughout mycareer. And one of the things that gets me most excited about talking aboutreal estate is because I've lived it, I've lived the benefits of it, providingfor my family, and and really taking myself to the next level financially. SoI've been able to do that over the last 20 years. I've got a, you know, we havea brokerage that we deal with a lot of clients from all over the not only inthe country, but in the world where they're looking for assets to buythemselves. So you know, I've have a rich history in that.


Dave Seymour 03:07

So tellme a little bit. Tell me a little bit about and Tom and the management company,because that's, that's a huge value add for me as a fund manager. Tell me justbreak it down a little bit. I Well, we'll get into it more on this call. Buttalk about Anton what what does that look like? What kind of service does thatgive to individual investors as well as fund managers like myself?


John Dessauer 03:31

Yeah, sowhat's interesting is I once heard a story about Andrew Carnegie or Carnegie.If you're in hardback. That's right. Yeah. And I heard a story about how he wasoriginally involved in the telegraph business, and the telegraph business iffor those of you that know, or, hopefully, maybe some remember if they're thatold, probably not. They put telegraph lines along what railroads, right andthen, uh, so the railroads became part of Andrew, I'm gonna say Andrew like,He's my best friend, right? Part of injuries business. And so we had to getinvolved in the railroad business by railroads, and one of their biggestpurchases as a railroad company is steel for the rails. And so the the restbecame history became the wealthiest man in the world because of the steelbusiness he got into but that's not where he started out at. And so thebrokerage of Anton it kind of brought me I arrived there. Along the same lines,I got involved in real estate investing. And, you know, management. AssetManagement is such an important role in that, that it kind of led me to createthat business. So we have a full brokerage. We operate in four states. We'vegot a full asset management company that manages Everything from retail toapartment units to single family kind of thing. And that really, that really isinteresting because of how important management is in creating that return thatall investors are looking for.


Dave Seymour 05:18

So, onthe fun management side, we use all kinds of different, you know, coolterminologies if you will, right, I think I think a lot of the, the, I think alot of the it's the it's the words, it's like the the acronyms for everything,right. So I think a lot of it is designed to confuse and keep, you know, a lotof investors out of it, if you think about the financial industry, and all theterminologies they use, but we use, we use our own special language as well inthe real estate world. And what john just described is what we call verticalintegration. Okay. Am I right, john? Ryan? vertikalen? Can you go vertically inyour business? So if you are in the, you know, the the financial level as afarm manager, do you also have the ability to do competent acquisitions, right,it's okay, moving money, but I'd be in order to buy it properly. And then onceyou're blind, what is your business plan, because if you don't have a businessplan, in this world, and you're just buying because it looks like a good deal,then you know, you're out of business very quickly. And so is your reputationand the investors that join you. So vertical integration, the ability to raisethe capital, deploy the capital, execute, right and execute on the game plan,which is where, you know, john comes in as a professional asset manager fund,managing the assets. That would also include my other partner, Walter Walter,no, Vicki had his own construction experience. So we primarily are in the inthe Gulf Coast region. So it's okay to buy it if it needs work. But do you havethe skill sets to fix it up? Potentially raise the rent or lease up thoseapartments? So we it's funny, man, we said before the call, we're going to stayon point. And already we're,





Dave Seymour 07:10

so let'sdial it back in we got vertical integration. We got some good synergies betweenmyself and john valuable, valuable team player, as I hope I am to you, brother.But let's let's go, let's go all the way back. Hey, dude, why real estate?what's so cool about real estate? I don't want to be a landlord. Are youkidding me? I watched Jerry Springer when it was on TV. I don't want any ofthose kinds of tenants. Taken, taken away, bro, real estate. You know, I


John Dessauer 07:38

thinkit's an interesting thing. You know, there's, people have so many choices as towhat they can invest in. You can invest in companies, you can invest inprecious metals, you can invest in, you know, all these different things. Butthe real interesting thing that when I look at something is I look at theclassic economic lesson of supply and demand. Yeah, and when I look at thathousing certainly falls into that mode. And, you know, in during today'stimeframe, the demand for housing is probably greater than it's ever beenbefore. And if you had to build a business off of a model that was going togive you the best chance of success, a model that would be a perfect fit forthat would be one in which the demand is outpacing the supply. So why realestate? I think it goes back to that economic model where not only is supplydwindling, but it's not keeping up with demand. And when that happens, yourprice per unit goes up. So rents go up the price of the individual unit,whether it's an apartment unit, or even a single family house goes up. And Isee that trend continuing. That's why you know, my number one reason of whyreal estate but that's also why I'm so bullish moving forward from here.


Dave Seymour 09:00

We knowit because we can look up the date or anywhere can't we? We could go on liketoday get all kinds of data, we know that the human population on our planet isgoing up, it's not going down. So that's the right that's the demand side. Andthen the supply side has got the deficit on it. So I love I love that. Youknow, like that macro view of it. It's like, you know, big picture that's that'sreally what it is. Um, you know, I've I've, I came into real estate jobbecause, you know, I had some financial challenges. We'll just leave it at thatI couldn't keep putting right trading trading time for money old school, butI've heard a couple of different things and I'd like your input on it. And Iknow I'm teeing these up to you, but it really is important. guy said to me onetime, you can either work from money or have money work for you, right? And heand then he prefaced it and I found this important. And what he said was itdoesn't matter what your earning income is. It doesn't matter what Whether as alot of our investors are accredited investors is what we attract and what wewhat we we work with, doesn't matter whether you're that, you know, thatsurgeon, that high paying individual or even attorneys, right, some high paidattorneys. And I got a bill from one recently. So I know some of them are veryhighly paid. But anyway, sidebar. But you know, it doesn't matter whetherthey're in at 500 an hour, or whether it's, you know, a lower paying position,it's still trading time for money. And he said, this is the way he put it tome. He said, It's simply a choice, you know, do you want to, you know, figureit all out yourself? Or do you want to align yourself with people who havelike, we just described Vertical, Vertical integration? So work with me on thatone, john, share a little a little insight on that working for money on moneyworking for you. There's no again, there's no right or wrong? It's just, youknow, somebody's DNA? What? What's your take on that, john, because I knowyou've been a serial entrepreneur for a very long time.


John Dessauer 11:00

Yeah,it's an interesting thing about putting money to work for you, because itallows you in this particular example, to buy something once and get paid over.And over and over in many different ways. There's typically four ways that weget paid. In real estate. That's probably the second reason why I think, youknow, the question of why real estate because you get paid in so many ways byit. And when I look at the ability, you know, most people finance theirretirement, through equity, through sweat equity, they go to work for a companyfor 40 years. And, you know, if you if you contribute to whatever theretirement plan is typically 401 K, maybe you get a company match there, youknow,


Dave Seymour 11:49

what,it's now a 101. k?





John Dessauer 11:54

it'sgone down significantly. But most people finance the retirement through that Ihave looked at a way here with real estate, where you can finance yourretirement through debt, or be a part of a system, like the fund where you canparticipate in that. And what's interesting about that is when you finance yourretirement through debt, um, you don't need you, you cut the 40 year learningcurve down significantly. And, you know, when I look in the mirror, I don'tknow if I have 40 years, you know, I know you don't have 40 years by looking at


Dave Seymour 12:29

all Wedon't know, we're on the downward curve, huh? Yeah. Anyway,


John Dessauer 12:35

look atthat. And it's not a get rich quick scheme. It's the power of leverage, andit's the power of using other people's money. See, this is like a symbioticrelationship where all sides benefit, you know, the bank benefits, they getinterest from the debt, the owner, and owners are the fun benefits because theyget a return through good operations. So that's why I'm another reason why I'mso bullish, but that's also, you know, doing something different, we're notgoing with the herd, kind of thing, we're doing something different to getdifferent results.


Dave Seymour 13:14

So ifI've got access to capital, we'll say, you know, $100,000, look, I've got 100grand, I can go buy a single family house in some of the Southern markets for50 $60,000. Right? I could put 15 $20,000 into it, and I could sell it for youknow, 121 30 that's an option. Or I got $100,000. And I can invest as a activeor passive investor, I guess I could take I could take that hundred thousanddollars, john, I could put 25% down on a $400,000 maybe, you know, three flatfour flat in Chinatown somewhere in one of your, your neighborhoods, thatutility business, right? And I could do it that way. Or I could take $100,000 andI could invest it with with fund managers with it with a diversified portfolio.What do you what do you see as the pros and cons of those three, three choices?So basically, why multi family job? Why do I Why do I want to play? Why do Iwant to play that guy?


John Dessauer 14:21

Yeah,really good question. And it all has to do with the topic of the velocity ofmoney. And so


Dave Seymour 14:31

when wepulled out of a timeout, I got again, it's


John Dessauer 14:35

it'ssexy, isn't it is lots of money,


Dave Seymour 14:38

how fastit moves.


John Dessauer 14:39

Yeah.And what I mean by that is, if you bought a house before anybody watching this,if you bought a house before, you know that the value of that house goes upincrements incrementally, with the market, you know, and run out hot and movingup and more people are buying houses and they'll sales comps are at higherprice points the value of that house House goes up, we've also found that thevalue of that house goes down in a declining market when supply is dominatingdemand. And so what's interesting about that is on the multifamily side, andwhen we talk about Velocity of Money, there's a whole nother system, that theaverage person that's buying a house, or maybe investing in single familyhouses, doesn't even realize. And it has to do with this world call word calledcapitalization. And so the value of a multifamily unit is based on somethingcalled a capitalization rate. And what that means, basically, is that when youincrease the income that's made the net operating income of the property not toget too technical on this, but when you increase the income that the propertyis generating, the value of the property grows, not incrementally, butexponentially. And so that's the reason that you can shorten that 40. year timeis, yeah, and a lot of people don't realize that that's the that's one of thesecrets, not all the secrets. But that's one of the where you can make thisthing happen financially. Just because you're playing in a different game,you're playing, you know, you're playing in an arena where the velocity ofmoney is so much faster. It's the difference of, you know, going from point Ato point B, and driving, you know, an 18 Wheeler there or driving.





John Dessauer 16:41

Maseratithere, it's that they're both vehicles, but one vehicle is going to get youthere a lot faster.


Dave Seymour 16:49

Yeah,yeah, cap capitalization rates. It really, it really is a secret sauce to thecommercial wealth of multifamily, isn't it? I mean, to simplify it and add toit a little bit, friend of mine said to me, You will live and die by the noi,the net operating income, what will you do with this multifamily asset toincrease its income value, and you can do that two ways, you increase by uppingrents, but you also and here's where most people miss the mark, you can alsoincrease value by decrease in expenses. And as a fund manager, we haveproprietary formulas that we identify, and we look for in assets, or when wesee our numbers come into almost into the crosshairs, if you will, if to use ahunting analogy, when those numbers line up, we know that it's time to pull thetrigger dry powder will win the game, he who can pull the trigger and getsomething under contract with these these proprietary formulas, then, you know,I know and, you know, it's it's unlike Donkey Kong to, to, to bring it into adifferent realm altogether. You know,


John Dessauer 18:01

I addone thing to that. Yeah, of course. So you're you hit the nail on the head,increasing the income and decreasing expenses are a way to increase your noifor sure. There's another way though. And that's why I think, you know,businesses is one of the components of success is timing. We think about thetiming right now of everything is going on, you know, people always need aplace to live. But they don't always need a place to work. Matter of fact, theywork from home. And I think that trend is going to continue kind of thing. Ithink that's actually going to make commercial residential IE multifamily unitsmore valuable in the long run, because the demand is going to be that much moreincreased for housing, because that's where they're also working. And so you'regoing to we're going to see is in that particular asset class, maybe not inother asset classes, like retail office, things like that. But in multifamily,you're going to see a continued cap rate that strong a compressing cap rate,and, you know, we don't have to go fully into that. But that's another reasonyou know, timing is so important for this, you know, this stage and what we'reinvolved in. It's why it makes sense for multifamily right now.


Dave Seymour 19:18

Yeah,without doing a deep dive, I'll just give you a little a little door opener,had a meeting with some some of our team recently, and we started identifyingassets not only that look good from the residential standpoint, you know, goodsquare footage, good quality home, good service, good community, like a reallynice asset. But we also started looking at what about taking some of these clubhouses that these big class assets have and how about we put a cap x rays in inour font in our acquisition, so that we take some of these clubhouses and wenow transfer and make them out to be like we work type spaces. If you look atthe the We work world it took, took a beat, because they were buying largercommercial office assets, chopping those up and thinking they were going to beokay. So we've identified an absolute opportunity there to, to bring the wework back to the facility. So you know, because people will still want to be inthat home environment. But now you can give them nice spaces to work from, ifyou know if they're, if the kids are homeschooling, and I know you've been goingthrough it with Heather's with Mary Beth, you know, to be able to get out ofthe house is also an incredibly pleasant thing. To be able to say, I'm moreproductive out of the home than I am in the home. Right? So yeah, good stuff.So, um, let's do this, john, I think is a good opportunity, because we startedgetting into formulas and diving a little deeper. Um, john and i have spent alot of time with each other recently. We're very proud to bring to the market,a deliverable, or an E book, whatever, you know, a book that we took some ofyour old work, and you know what brought it forward a little bit and coauthored a book together, the name of the book is unlocking the coal tomultifamily investing. At the end of this this call, there'll be a link for afree download on that it touches on a lot of the topics and the conversationthat we're going through right now. Um, so yeah, that's a gift. Right? Always,always give gifts. were given all let's do it this way. Watch, john. Hey, myhundred thousand dollars, right? I know a guy he does that called syndicateddeals, where he raises money. I think it's a reg C, I


John Dessauer 21:45

don'tknow our reg F.


Dave Seymour 21:46

I don'tknow what that it's a reg something. But I know this guy, and he's done quite afew of these deals is a good guy. And you know, he's got a good team. Um, andthen you guys over there freedom venture investments, you you run a fund, youdon't put the money? What's the difference of what's the advantages anddisadvantages of syndicating putting all the money on one property, as opposedto getting a preferred rate of return? Plus targeted returns over the life ofthe fund? What's the advantage of a fun, john? And why would I want toentertain something like that? I think


John Dessauer 22:23

it comesdown to one word, and that word is diversify. And I think when you have asituation where some people are looking to get involved in real estateinvesting, there's a lot of choices that you can have. Um, the thing that makessyndication, a good viable avenue for some people is that it gives them anopportunity to invest in a larger project, if they don't necessarily have thefinancial resources to buy that themselves. So it's a way to participate in thegame on the negative and I think people have found this out, or over the lastfew months or several months, I have no the best one on is that sometimes whenyou put all of your eggs in one basket, and the basket is destroyed, orseverely hurt, then you don't have the returns, or the distributions thatyou're looking for with that scenario. So if you bring in the comparisonbetween that and a fund, the fund has the ability to diversify the incomeinvolved in one asset in one location, and one asset class like,


Dave Seymour 23:48

hey, johntimeout, that was really good dude. And I lost a little bit of your signal,right there, I think it's on my end. But go back in again, and talk about whyyou you what your thoughts are around, you know, a fun comparison to maybebeing invested purely in retail right now, which could be, which could be apretty painful experience for an investor. Hit that again, man.


John Dessauer 24:11

Okay.So, you know, when you take an asset class, like retail, for instance, andwe've had the the events that have unfolded for COVID-19, for instance, we haveall these social distancing, and the economy shutting down, you know, again,people always need a place to live, they don't necessarily need a place towork. And we've, we've proven that during these times. And so if you were in asyndication that just was a retail center, or Matter of fact, a fund that justdid retail projects, and you're going to be in trouble based on the events thathave happened, or maybe, you know, severely challenged, maybe, maybe all togethermaybe just a little bit, but you're going to have some challenges there. Um, Ithink with a This particular direction, it's about diversifying and goingtowards the thing that is going to play into that supply and demand model.Right now the supply is overwhelming the demand for retail, I think you'restarting to also see that on the office front as well. But when you look atHousing and Residential housing by way of multifamily units, it's the exactreverse, I don't see anything on the horizon that would be stopping that orslowing that within reason, that, um, is going to be a major change. So I thinkthat that would be a benefit to look at, you know, a fun that participates inthat. Plus, you get the diversification of many projects, as opposed to beinginvested in just one with a syndication.


Dave Seymour 25:48

Yeah, Itake your head at john, you, we don't have to go to an office. And let's justbe frank, we don't have to go to the mall. Now. I know, you know, I wasfollowing the numbers. And, you know, it was a huge uptick in in retail sales.In the past, I think it was in the past week. And I get that I do I get it. Butthe challenge is, this is a lot of the these acquisitions pre COVID. And, youknow, let's talk about if I'm off point, but my my, my view, my education, mypaying attention to what's going on around me, you know, the basics, you know,a lot of these acquisitions pre COVID, where we're tight, um, you know, ifthere's ever a time that people were exposed, due to, you know, speculative typeinvest in it was pre COVID. You know, guys like you and I have hadconversations online offline. Some of our other board members have had theseconversations as well, is the fact that, you know, the fundamentals seem tohave taken a walk, like they took off somewhere like, you know, the things thatwere getting taken down at the prices and the cap rates they were beingpurchased, that just didn't seem to make sense to us. And, you know, working onfundamentals, knowing that you can push, right noi you can force appreciation,through through two things, preserving capital number one, and then and thenvelocity of capital, like you said, number two, we take those two, and we linethem up side by side. You know, number one, never lose the money. Number two, goback to number one, it goes on and on. Right. But fundamentals take over inthese times of chaos and crisis. What do you see cap rates doing? Post COVID?Do you see because we talk about the buying opportunities that are coming. Forme personally, I you know, our fund is focusing on 60 to 150 units. A lot ofthe competitors out there, the big boys, as we call them, you know, they'llfocus on 250 unit apartment complexes and bigger. I've had a couple ofconversations this week. And I'm like, just give me the stuff that you don'twant, I'll take the crowds. Because I can absolutely work the numbers a lotfaster on a 60 to 120 unit than I can try and drive the Titanic. You know whatI mean? It's almost like, you know, a four unit is a little little speedboatblip thing where I like the consistency of that 61 150 unit apartment complex.And we focus primarily is, you know, Johnny on the Gulf Coast region down inFlorida, with Walters connection. So what do you what do you see happening withbuying opportunities? And how do you see that relating over to capitalizationrates and projected returns?


John Dessauer 28:53

Well,not all the smoke has cleared yet from the whole COVID 19 scenario. But what Ido know is this, you know, 10 years ago, online purchases represented somewherebetween 5% to 8% of all the purchases that were made from a retail standpoint,that been moved to 13 to 15%. Over the last few years, so there was a lot ofupside. If you talk to people on the retail side, that's kind of their, hey, bricksand mortar are still needed kind of thing. What's interesting with world eventsand events like COVID, is it just pushed the real estate market from acommercial sense, forward ahead of time it like moved it into the future, whereI think something like 40% of all purchases made during that time period wasmade on line it actually gave the consumer confidence that they could makethose purchases and they could work not in their office building downtown butat the comfort of their own home. Those two things Things purchases, and workhappen now at home. And so if if we said, well moving forward, if home if ifresidences are going to be the best option to invest in as opposed to a placeto work, as opposed to a place to buy things. And I always tell the story ifyou like grapes, right? You don't go to the grocery store and buy a grape. Youbuy bunches of grapes. That's why buying multi family units makes sense. You'rebuying a bunch of grapes, you're not buying one grape.


Dave Seymour 30:35

Oh, Idon't understand. I don't understand the grape analogy. Can you use one donutover a dozen instead? Please, so I can I can identify what you're saying, john?


John Dessauer 30:43

I do.You're making another laugh over here. I do have. I do have more of a donut bodythan a grape body for sure. But think about it. Like if you if you what I justsaid, If you believe that, which if you look at the stats, it's apparent wherethis thing is going. Um, you're going to want to be a part of not maybe byyourself, but you're going to be a want to be a part of a system in which thatsystem is buying bunches of grapes, or dozens of doughnuts. Oh, no,


Dave Seymour 31:16



John Dessauer 31:18

yeah,you're a part of many, the, and I know for a fact that that trend is going tocontinue. It was a social experiment, what has happened over the last severalmonths, the social experiment, the results of that told us that if you investin housing, that's where people are going to buy their things. That's wherepeople are going to go to work. It's a change. I was listening to the CEO, Daveof Morgan Stanley. And he was talking about, you know, in January, if you wouldhave told us that 90% This is the employer that employs, you know, hundreds ofthousands of people, if they told us that 90% of our workforce was going towork from home. By the end of March, I would have said, there's no way that'simpossible. And his basic outcome of that was, you know, what, not only didthat happen, but we will more efficient as a company. So I'm asking myself, asa CEO of Morgan Stanley, why do we need all this bricks and mortar? The trendis there, the science experiment, the social experiment, many of you, if youwill, clearly shows us that housing is going to be the superstar in real estateinvesting. And for the average investor out there, you know, the hunger to getinvolved in some way, some manner is also been strengthened by that as well.Love it,


Dave Seymour 32:43

loveit. Look, man, I mean, we've covered we've covered a ton of grass in a shortperiod of time, I'm gonna I'm gonna wrap it up a little bit, right? I don'twant to go on too long, because we will just keep going, your hair will growand mine will fall out by the time with, well, maybe your beard will grow it alittle bit. But um, you know, we were talking before we jumped on the call. AndI think he made the comment was, you know, the buying opportunities are gonnabe, you know, q4, q1 2021. Right. And we're aligned for that, which is why thefund came to its fruition. The private placement memorandum is is tight,projected returns preferred returns targeted returns to our investors. We'revery bullish, like you right on what what's going to happen in the multifamilyarena, and looking for an opportunity to expand and grow. There will be this.It's like, I never want to be corny, Johnny. I don't, I don't want to be corny.But you know, when everybody is greedy, be fearful. When everybody is fearful,be greedy. And, you know, people have asked me personally, you know, what areyou been doing? Where are you you've gone all quiet. Did you quit? Did youretire? You know, did you move to Bora Bora, or whatever. And it's it's never acase of that it's a case of really taking an honest look at the lay of the landand then strategize in the best way possible. And that's that's exactly whatthe fund is here for. That's why this team has been put together again, lookcan can an individual investor go buy a six unit property and do it all ontheir own? Of course, they care as long as they're ready for you know, Bobby inthe toilet at three o'clock in the morning and repairs and maintenance. Andsome people love that and that's fine. But then the educated investor who'salready got their own daily routine going says How can I put my capital to workwith velocity and that's that's why they align themselves with with guys likeus. It is a very exciting time. I know it's been an incredibly painful timefinancially and also, you know, so I mean, let's just be direct with it. Right?We've some crazy times going on right now. So let it's all getting shaken up.And what falls out afterwards? Well, that's that's for everybody to determinewhich side of the equation they're going to be on, you know, six months, eightmonths from now going forward. So what man I really really enjoyed writing thebook with you. I think I can even share a little looky looky at the at the newcover. So there it is, I don't know if you can see john, that's, you'll maybesee it on the recording. I think unlocking the code to multifamily investingwith john is our Dave Seymour, there's a link on the site, you'll be able toget a free download for that. And then well, we'll reach out, we'll touchgloves with you. We'll take a look at where you are as an investor where youwant to go. And whether there's a nice fit between your your investingstrategies and ours. And a chance to hopefully get together as a team soonerrather than later. Get out to Chicago, come hang with you and come up toBoston. Then we'll go to our offices down in Florida. We'll look at some moresticks and bricks baby and take it all down. So my plan I love Awesome. Allright, john, thanks for your time, man. I appreciate it. Heather, if you canhear me, Misha, and we'll all talk real soon. Take care, man. Thanks for yourtime, Johnny. Thank you see you both